Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

If you've had as many clients as I have get caught up reading Lorem Ipsum and badgering me with questions about "why is that text there?" and when being told that it's just faux latin filler asking "well, what's it mean?", (and some refusing to believe it doesn't really mean anything--well anything relevant to them anyway), you'd know that the "whole point" of lorem ipsum is often defeated anyway :P (you're also assuming all users of this app speak English).

At least this way you can say, "it's from Moby Dick, now get me some real content!"

Or for those who, like myself, design web apps (as opposed to web pages) for which no content will be forthcoming from the client (because it will ultimately be user-generated), having something as an alternative that only I will see to test layout is somewhat refreshing (I agree with the site's creator, I'm tired of lorem ipsum). I may not be alone: http://amplicate.com/hate/loremipsum

> If you've had as many clients as I have get caught up reading Lorem Ipsum and badgering me with questions about "why is that text there?" ...

This is a generic problem for all designers. You just have to explain, the way you need to explain about a hundred other things to your clients, if they're new to the process.

Also, you would STILL have problem whether it's lorem ipsum or Moby Dick. You don't think they'd ask "why are there twenty paragraphs about the brutal slaughter and dismemberment of whales on my page?", especially if they're the least bit Green.

> At least this way you can say, "it's from Moby Dick, now get me some real content!"

You can say this with lorem ipsum too.

> I'm tired of lorem ipsum

If you're tired specifically of the text of lorem ipsum, then you can get lots of other bits of Latin online and use that. Or use the generator here: http://lipsum.lipsum.com/ which will mix things up a bit so it's not always the same.

"You just have to explain..." sounds great in theory, but as Yogi Berra said, "In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." And since you paint the picture of a patient and discerning web designer, I'm sure that designer wouldn't choose the paragraphs about what dismemberment (unless maybe their client was Greenpeace). I don't think (and in fact know from personal experience using alternate content before this generator) that they don't ask "why is this text here?" (pasted from Sherlock Holmes).

Which still doesn't address the non-English argument or for my own internal uses/enjoyment :)

Well this could obviously go on all day ... here's my point again. We use lorem ipsum because we don't want to distract users (other than Classics scholars) from the design. Being distracted from the design because you're looking at the text is bad. Any argument you make for the use of legible, distracting text has to beat that argument.

Yes, it could go on forever, so I'll make this my last comment in this thread :) "Any argument you make for the use of legible, distracting text has to beat that argument" I made two arguments already, but here goes:
1. For my own use (for internal apps or apps that I'm the content creator for, so therefore I'm the only user to have to worry about, and personally I don't find it distracting),
2. For clients that I have a relationship and know won't be distracted by something other than Lorem Ipsum (I do contract work for other designer/developers quite a bit)
3. For mocks for users that don't read English, so it's just as "unreadable" as Lorem Ipsum

There are other arguments against lipsum as well, such as it doesn't accurately reflect real language (punctuation, contractions, internal quotes, etc.). And the counter-argument about Lorem Ipsum itself being a distraction on occasion is still being ignored; as Cameron Moll recently said about this "Then again, I’ve had clients ask why there was Latin text in the their comp and what it meant".

Ultimately, it's just another tool, the appropriate use of which is subject to the discretion of the developer. I think blind adherence to Lorem Ipsum as a panacea for all design situations is "completely stupid".

Let's see, you say the idea is "completely stupid" (a pretty harsh and absolute criticism, basically not allowing for any alternatives to your precious Lorem Ipsum). You cite that Lorem Ipsum is used to keep clients from being distracted by the text.

When Mark A. points out his personal experience (and cites the personal experience of Cameron Moll) that users are in fact sometimes distracted by Lorem Ipsum (essentially defeating your argument for Lorem Ipsum), you then counter by AGREEING with him that that does in fact occur ("This is a generic problem for all designers"); so you're basically saying that Lorem Ipsum doesn't solve the problem of keeping users from being distracted (at least those "new to the process").

You then argue that "you would STILL have problem (sic) whether it's lorem ipsum or Moby Dick". OK, so you're saying BOTH can cause the problem (where's the argument for Lorem Ipsum now?). You say you "just have to explain" to your clients--so why can't you just explain about Moby Dick etc. (do you think the clients are too stupid to learn to ignore one type of text but not the other--mine can, and so apparently can Mark A.'s since he says he's used text from Sherlock Holmes. Maybe it's just your clients)?

Then you ignore Mark A.'s additional arguments about using an alternative for his own personal/internal work (no uneducated user to be distracted) and for non-English users for whom Moby Dick et al makes as much sense as Lorem Ipsum.

Instead you follow up with your original argument that you've already helped defeat:
"Being distracted from the design because you're looking at the text is bad." (yet you acknowledge it happens with Lorem Ipsum) "Any argument you make for the use of legible, distracting text has to beat that argument" (I guess Lorem Ipsum would be "illegible, distracting text"). Mark A. made three arguments that beat it (and more afterwards, as did Daniel B. below).

As Mark A. said, it's an alternative tool, free to use (I'll take this moment to say a public thanks to whoever built the site for making it available to everybody--and don't even get me started on the lack of appreciation and obnoxious sense of entitlement by the guy that says fu).

Hey, I think I know where I've seen Ambrose before: http://bit.ly/djr9Dk

EXACTLY. Lorem Ipsum isn't even good, proper latin. It's supposed to have proportionality to regular text, but just be a placeholder BECAUSE it's a way of abstracting the text so you know it fits properly. If you use this tool you're defying the whole reason why you would use Lorem Ipsum anyway, and should probably just stick to the copy you're going to be finalized with anyway.