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Most of the world's electronics are made in China...can we continue to trust our tools?
We now know that either the Chinese government, or a very large privately-funded clandestine operation from Asia, has been hacking Western governments, intelligence agencies, and businesses for a decade. What if the hardware they produce also has secret backdoors or comes pre-infested with trojan viruses?
The story on IT World lays down some pretty chilling precedents: did you know that Chinese intelligence agents approach business men at trade fairs in the UK and offer 'gifts' of digital cameras that come with viruses on them? What if the Chinese government has gotten to hardware manufacturers -- what if your Xbox 360 comes with a backdoor in it that lets them snoop on your home network? How about a chip on your motherboard or graphics card that phones home?
It's an interesting idea, made all the more scary because it's believable. For now, as far as we know, it's just espionage, an attack on governments and businesses -- but when will be the targets?
A vast amount of technology originates from China and Taiwan, and that's not going to stop soon -- if China's grasp is inescapable, why bother worrying?
And even then, is there even a way we can combat it?
Comments
38
Subscribe to commentsGardiner WestboundFeb 6th 2010 2:55PM
Not far-fetched at all. The U.S. reportedly surreptitiously puts a back door into weapons systems it sells. Today's ally may be tomorrow's enemy. Sadaam Hussein was originally a U.S. strategic partner, not always the healthy choice. It makes sense the Red Chinese would take steps today to gain future advantage.
Sebastian AnthonyFeb 6th 2010 3:26PM
Well, as long as that IS the case, I guess we have nothing to worry about -- if it turns into an on-land war.
We might not have any power, or heat, or computers or technology of any kind... but we'll win the war!
DennyFeb 6th 2010 3:35PM
A backdoor in XBOXs? What do you think the Red Ring of Death is? It's those pesky Reds calling it and stealing all our good 'ole Western data.
Sebastian AnthonyFeb 6th 2010 5:10PM
I laughed :P
redandwhiteFeb 6th 2010 3:23PM
Sensationalist and paranoid. The software on devices such as iPhones etc are not controlled on modified by the Chinese. Even so, whenever a firmware update is pushed, thats directly from the OEM, not some crummy Chinese government-controlled factory with an agenda against you personally.
Sebastian AnthonyFeb 6th 2010 3:26PM
And what about hardware...?
Also, firmware only represents a portion of the data on a device.
Chris BeamesFeb 6th 2010 3:58PM
Oh no! You mean some one else might be able to look at the pictures of me and my family! Perhaps even read my junk mail and my invites to the local Pizza Hut! Quickly, turn off everything made in China. I'll send word by carrier pigeon when this ugly mess blows over.
ericloeweFeb 6th 2010 4:12PM
It's theoretically possible, but come on, I'm sure most companies have Quality Control guys of their own supervising the chinese.
VDFeb 6th 2010 4:16PM
What scares me most is the bigotry I keep seeing on the internet.
What has China did wrong to anyone? All the hacking and the human rights stuff happened on their own soil, so it's no one's business other that the Chinese.
Keep badmouthing them, and we'll soon start learning Chinese.
Sebastian AnthonyFeb 6th 2010 4:59PM
A lot of things happen outside our borders... are you saying we should ignore them? In some cases that's not even possible, if we have expatriates living there, for example.
VDFeb 6th 2010 6:00PM
@Sebastian Anthony
If you we're wronged by China, or your family and friends, then of course you shouldn't ignore it.
However, fearmongering that chinese made products will steal your life borders on racism, or is at best crazy talk.
BTW, I am not american. And while in my country we also make fun of chinese hardware, I still believe we should respect their culture and way of life as much as we do our own.
Sebastian AnthonyFeb 6th 2010 6:38PM
No, I haven't been wronged -- I'm just repeating/reporting the story that I linked.
I'm theorizing! Forming opinions!
I think you have me a little confused though. I'm not saying 'Chinese people smell bad'.
ProlornFeb 6th 2010 7:43PM
While I agree that consumer worries over Chinese hardware may be premature, it is neither crazy nor racist in theory to raise concerns over Chinese policies, whether internal or external.
The Chinese government's response to criticism is an attempt to exert their own values, in a manner no less forceful than the very critiques it decries.
(As an aside, I'm ethnically Chinese myself, and the first generation of my family born in the US no less. I've family there, and I continue to travel there regularly. I am not swayed by the PRC's claim that external critique is invalid.)
Undoubtedly some degree of the unease could be attributed to fear of the "other", but that is not something special to Chinese issues, and moreover misses the primary cause of contention.
The "cultural values" that the Chinese government espouses promote the nation over the nation's citizens. (Not coincidentally, the ruling party tends to identify itself as the nation.)
The "Western values" recognize a role for society, too, but at least in theory tend to think of how society a means to an end (the welfare of individuals) rather than an end of itself. (In the US, ref. "government of the people, by the people, for the people" in the Gettysburg Address.)
Both may even share the goal of improving the livelihoods of all (though I would contend that in the PRC there exists also the implicit goal of keeping the CCP in power), but their different approaches reflect different concerns and will produce different results.
The crux is that the PRC's claim that external criticism is not just irrelevant but *morally wrong* is itself an assertion of their values at least as strong as the attitudes it opposes.
It is an assertion that national sovereignty is above concerns for individual rights.
(In a noteworthy move, it attempts to avoid the argument over whether its internal actions are right by claiming that only its internal members can even legitimately analyze that, but makes every possible effort to thwart criticism of the CCP by the Chinese people themselves.)
By telling foreigners to treat it as a collective with individual subordinates rather than a collection of individuals, it *is* pushing its cultural values.
It may not necessarily be *wrong* for China to promote its values (its hard for any nation to do otherwise), but it is hypocritical of them to claim that they are not doing so and that it is only those "Western powers" that are being intrusive when they try to push individualism and democracy down Chinese throats.
The Chinese government is at least no less responsible for imposing its ruling stratagem on the Chinese people; the rest of the world should not shy away from criticism of China's internal policies by adopting Chinese social values themselves. And they should certainly feel free to criticize China's external actions; the PRC's inability to stomach it is a sign of their own immaturity.
Sebastian AnthonyFeb 6th 2010 7:51PM
Wow, thanks for the input :)
As you say, it's pretty insane that external input is unwanted -- and internal input is usually persecuted.
Contemporary sovereignty isn't the same as the olden days, as you point out. I don't know if it's correct that we can see through their borders -- is it right that they can be held accountable for what is thrown into a public light by the Internet (and the media)?
I don't know. I'd hate to be told how to lead my country by other people. But if they don't even listen to their own people, as you say... well... :)
ChrisFeb 8th 2010 3:59AM
Totally agree. People talk as if the US does not engage in any web espionage - what baloney.
kassifanFeb 6th 2010 4:50PM
I agree with redandwhite that this is sensationalistic and paranoid and a couple more like these and I'm not coming here anymore.
But for the sake of argument.
No, China would not do this. Why? Because they're getting filthy rich off manufacturing. So why would they risk all that cash just so they could install some backdoor program, for what? So they can hack our Twitter accounts? So they can prevent us from typing "Dalai Lama" on our computers?
Also why the heck did you lump Taiwan with China? Not sure you noticed but Taiwan is a US ally.
Sebastian AnthonyFeb 6th 2010 5:01PM
Hm... they are kind of an ally. Taiwan doesn't officially exist -- or, rather, if they tried to gain sovereignty, China would probably get more than a little upset.
You're right that they don't _need_ to do it. Did they feel the need to hack Google and the other large corporations? The oil companies? The counter-intelligence agency?
I don't think you are in a position to say what the Chinese need or want to do :)
R.J.Feb 6th 2010 5:39PM
I'm glad that we have a large and enthusiastic hacking/modding community. Not only do I trust that they would find such exploits but be able to tell us how to patch it.
I'm not worried like a cucumber.
nomi49Feb 6th 2010 5:48PM
I agree we can't trust China. But what about Google. Google has
software and apps for almost all of those electronics from search
widgets to OS.
Do you think Google is going to spare us if we escape from creepy China?
SugarDaddyFeb 6th 2010 10:49PM
Um Google is a company. China is a country, and a totalitarian communist one at that. Google promotes free speech. China will disappear your ass if you even mention something like Tiananman square within their borders. The Chinese have a huge nationalistic hacker culture and a million man standing army filled with men -- most of which couldn't find a girl simply because there are not enough to go around. Google is what? 2500 employees mostly living in the US? I'm sorry. China is way more of a threat than Google.